All_Pain_No_Gainz's Journal, 03 June 2022

From being told to replace nutritional food with a donut before bed to spike insulin, to being told that fasting glucose of high 90 is normal. The bad info just keeps coming. The worst part of all this is no one ever thought of asking of what meds, supps, or peds he's on that may alter all of this before spitting out google searches. At least he's getting blood work done and having it looked at by a doc or coach (assuming). I’m not angry. A little frustrated, sure. But it is a forum. Diablo and superman If you’re a coach with clients I don’t know what your education or credentials or background is but maybe you know more about biomechanics or programming with periodization or nutrient timing than I do idk. I just know, I know more about labs/diagnostics and medicine because well that’s what I do and that’s my education. I just hope this man is smart enough to not take the advice of anyone off a fitness app that has no real world experience with any of this (out side of a Google search) 

You figure a guy with so much knowledge would have better links than a youtube video. Until flexible dieters start coming down with diabetes by the truckload I'd say you religious clean eaters are just fear-mongering needlessly. A donut isn't so serious man. It's just food. Again, he is getting more than enough nutrition, processed food isn't a death knell. I find it funny that as long as it has protein these foods are never shunned. Make protein pancakes and all of a sudden it's a healthy food. Have a protein shake with normal pancakes and get lectured by a clean eating bro. 

From the link I posted "MYTH: Carbohydrate Is Singularly Responsible for Driving Insulin FACT: Protein Is a Potent Stimulator of Insulin Too This is probably the biggest misconception that is out there. Carbohydrates get a bad rap because of their effect on insulin, but protein stimulates insulin secretion as well. In fact, it can be just as potent of a stimulus for insulin as carbohydrate. One recent study compared the effects of two different meals on insulin. One meal contained 21 grams of protein and 125 grams of carbohydrate. The other meal contained 75 grams of protein and 75 grams of carbohydrate. Both meals contained 675 calories. Here is a chart of the insulin response:" 

We better limit our protein too. Or not since we aren't unhealthy diabetics, we are healthy weight lifters. 

https://weightology.net/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/ <---the link again since you most likely didn't visit it. Plenty of myths are dispelled there.  

"Now, you may be wondering why refined carbohydrates can be a problem. Many people think it's due to the rapid spikes in insulin. However, it's obviously not the insulin, because protein can cause rapid spikes in insulin as well. One problem with refined carbohydrate is a problem of energy density. With refined carbohydrate, it is easier to pack a lot of calories into a small package. Not only that, but foods with high energy density are often not as satiating as foods with low energy density. In fact, when it comes to high-carbohydrate foods, energy density is a strong predictor of a food's ability to create satiety (i.e., low-energy density foods create more satiety). There are other issues with refined carbohydrate as well that are beyond the scope of this article. The bottom line is that insulin doesn't deserve the bad reputation it's been given. It's one of the main reasons why protein helps reduce hunger. You will get insulin spikes even on a low-carb, high-protein diet. Rather than worrying about insulin, you should worry about whatever diet works the best for you in regards to satiety and sustainability. As mentioned in a previous article, individual responses to particular diets are highly variable and what works for one person will not necessarily work for another. I will be writing a post in the future on the need for individualized approaches to nutrition." 

^and that is the main reason the myth exists. Correlation does not equal causation. Refined carbs are easy to overeat and many people who become obese and diabetic eat these refined carbs, but a weightlifter who maybe doesn't want to choke down so much clean food can benefit from easily consumed calories when on a bulk. 

This is good stuff, lol. 

Edgar, this is what you do for a living.... but you provided a YouTube podcast as scientific evidence and suggest we use use GOOGLE. And when I tell you GOOGLE says fasting blood sugar of 70-99 is in the normal range, now you’re dismissing googles information. You see the dangers of his fasting blood sugar at 94 but didn’t mention the 70 he was at. That’s borderline hypoglycemia. Yes you ignored that cuz “this is what you do” Dont just point out what you think is wrong, how about give what you think is right in return too and have a healthy discussion where we can all learn or not learn but atleast see a different side to things and not be just one guy being emo about it 

Insulin is an anabolic hormone. Full stop. It improves muscle growth (MPS) when amino acids are introduced. Full stop. It prohibits catabolism. Full stop. Our bodies do most of their growing when at rest/sleep. Full stop. These are pretty high priorities for all the folks I know who do regular strength training.  

As a former keto zealot for many years, I'm quite aware of the effects of insulin on the human body. I lived to argue these things with people who ate carbohydrates for energy in the gym instead of a bulletproof coffee.  

Chrisw77, you couldn't even spot the start of his insulin response , or the spike in his meal plan he posted. What makes you think I would you even take you serious now? 

All_pain, if you are worried about your blood glucose getting too high try a carb cycle approach. Throwing in short deficits occasionally also will help.  

Best thread of the day. By far. 

Superman, this is week 20. The last 2 days my fasting blood sugar has been 101 and 102, tested on my wife's glucose monitor. So it's not far off from what it was on my lab work of 98 five weeks ago. Chris no one is debating what insulin is or what it does. It's the unnecessary multiple spikes thru out the day and the effects on the body. 

Appreciate the update pain. Yea I’d be cautious if it breaks 100. Maybe roll back some cals or go on a mini cut. What bodyfat would you say you are at right now?  

Check this out its an old moutaindog video I came across. He puts it pretty simple. https://youtu.be/XzJTyp-c2ks  

I don't know my body fat, but I can still somewhat see my top 4 abs  

Hey All_Pain, I have a few friendly and unsolicited suggestions for mitigating EXCESSIVE insulin spiking: 1) Eat a fibrous veggie BEFORE you eat your carb and protein - fiber gels at the bottom of the stomach and slows the passage of food into the large intestine. Take your blood sugar at the 1, 2, 3, and 4 hour marks to see how your body responds. 2)Swap out some/all carbs for whole grain (more fiber). Again, take your blood sugar often and experiment to find the right mix for you. 3)Supplement with cinnamon, chromium, zinc, magnesium, a good B multi, curcumins, and a DHA/EPA .supplement.  

The final suggestion is to drop your calories 500 at a time. You can still keep your gains. There is really no reason EVER for your fasting glucose to be above 90. I was gestational diabetic with both of my pregnancies (I was a little chubby, but really strong/muscular and worked out through both of my pregnancies). This is how I kept things in check. Food for thought.